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October 18th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
What does a physicist mean by 'information' and how is it lost in a black hole or is it?
If it refers to ones and zeroes what do they represent and how are heat, entropy and information related? Came across these ideas in an article but couldn’t fully put them together.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:48 am
there may be more to it but from my understanding.
Information is anything usefuel that can be detected, or can be represented in a way in which we can make a signal out of it.
References :
October 19th, 2011 at 2:50 am
By information, they specifically mean entropy. Entropy being a measure of how organized/disorganized a state is. A perfect crystalline structure would have low entropy, while a hot gas of the same molecules would have higher entropy.
Low entropy stuff can fall into a black hole, but only thermal radiation comes out. In that sense, information about what falls in is lost by nature.
This is not entirely accurate though, it’s more of an outstanding problem. The calculation that yields information loss is classical and stationary. There are many possible resolutions in the second Wikipedia link.
References :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox
October 19th, 2011 at 2:52 am
What a blackhole causes loss of is the information about the state of the universe. You can think of a number of things that comprise this information.
Material, or the type of stuff present there
The organisation of this material, or the relative configuration of bodies
The temperature of bodies
Their momenta
Parities
Electromagnetic fields
Gravitational effects
Their evolutionary history.
I can go on naming…but in a nut shell its the identity of the part of the universe that is lost.
Now let me answer the question again.
What a blackhole causes loss of is the information about the state of the universe. Or, ENTROPY
Its the way how energy in this universe organises itself. Yeah! That simple.
Now read the first part again…
Type of material- atoms get their identity from organisation of fundamental particles, which in turn are samaller particles, which in turn are THOUGHT to be nothing but condensed energy. So atoms differ from each other in terms of energy organisatin… Hola..thats entropy
Then the organisation of material,momenta, parities, temperature are all nothing but effects of entropy, directly.
EM and gravitational fields are interactions of the carrier particles with each other (unconfirmed for gravitation) and this is basically about their entropies..how they move, how fast they are, where do the go, how far…all entropy….
And finally, evolutionary history… Thats about how entropy has been through the course of time.
AND what comes out of the blackhole after eating all this? Pure energy, without any tags about its organisation…if you know html.think like this.. Previously it was html..with all beauty and organisation, afterwards, someone deleted all the tags and gave you pure text.
So you see…you understood whats entropy and yea, also got answer to your question, i guess. Lol
References :
my interest
October 19th, 2011 at 2:54 am
Information means different things to different disciplines, But in physics it generally refers to the number of measurable states a thing can have. So this related to numbers, if say a system of 4 particles each of which can be in place a or place b this is like a 4 digit binary number. Of course the real systems have far more particles and far more possible states & therefore far more information.
This possible number of states is related to the entropy. A crystal with its rigid structure has low entropy, and hot gas high entropy.
In Sub atomic and quantum physics we define far more possibilities of state so more opportunity for defining information.
In quantum physics information is exchanged between particles by means of exchange particles, in this way when a neutron passes a proton (Hydrogen nucleus in say wax) it can pick up enough information from the proton to actually become a proton, they sort of exchange stuff until the neutron gets out of range it may or may not be . This type of Information is limited by the speed of light. Anything travelling faster than the speed of light (eg a Tachyon) is incapable of imparting information.
A black hole’s gravity is so strong that light and thus information is sucked in, so I would say a black hole destroys information.
Thats about the limit of my Understanding, the information concept is quite new, and I am not.
References :